Thursday, November 09, 2006

Yellow House / Blue House

Following is a reproduction of a conversation between me, and a pastor friend of mine. My words are in dark blue, his are in dark red.

Thousands and thousands of churches… For whom are all these churches built and run?

If they're for Christians… are we guilty of colossal selfishness? Do we really need all this stuff to become more like Christ?

If they're for Non-Christians… are we guilty of building and running them in a way that repels Non-Christians? Why would we expect the unsaved to enjoy our music, our décor, our customs?

If for a combination of the two… are we guilty of both?”


I don’t have anything profound to say about this. I think our buildings are just a cultural expression of our faith, just as in Africa the people worship under banyan trees. Buildings in our culture are merely ways to keep us warm in winter, cool in summer, and dry in rain. Obviously, like anything else of this world, buildings can be overdone, but for the most part, most church buildings are more functional than decorative.

True enough.

But I’m obviously not opposed to buildings in general. I just think that few people are really clear why all these church buildings exist. I myself wonder if the increased benefit of building a church, over using homes or school buildings, is great enough to justify the expense. In other words, are they really cost-effective in helping us become the people God wants us to be? I think this question is especially poignant if you consider how our church buildings tend to reinforce the exclusivity of our Christian sub-culture.


It makes me imagine a gated community with houses that are all yellow, where the people all wear yellow. A group of outsiders walk by, who don’t like yellow, they like blue. The security guard at the gate says, “We want to invite you to live in our gated community. But first you must change into this yellow clothing.” So the outsiders respond, “Why would we want to wear clothing we don’t like, in order to live in a neighborhood we don’t like?” This scenario happens over and over, and the security guard has many different responses, including “Because otherwise you’ll go to hell”, or “Because I promise you’ll like it once you’ve tried it”, or “Because it would make your mother happy” or “Because there’s free food inside” or “Well, you can keep your blue clothing, but you’ll still have to live in a yellow house, and everybody will kind of look at you funny.” And so on and so forth.

That being said, I recognize that God uses many different methods among different groups to build His Kingdom. I don’t mean to be critical, just trying to challenge myself and others to think about things in new ways.

Glad you’re back… Hope I haven’t demanded too much of your time.


They also represent the inclusitivity of our faith. They do give us places to gather. The issue is not the building. The issue is the hearts of the people gathering there. A building is nothing but brick and mortar. It has no plus or minus factor in and of itself. All hinges on the hearts of the worshipers. Even groups that are committed to not using buildings end up using them. Saddleback is of course the classic example. Another example is The Core here in Springfield. They have opted to use a building downtown as their Front Porch. Are you acquainted with The Core?

Very funny…

You are right that it is our hearts that ultimately matter. But we also have to consider how our behavior, our clothing, our buildings and our customs impact those around us who are not Christians.

One of my original questions was, if (and that’s a big “if”) our buildings are primarily for the purpose of outreach, why are they designed to appeal only to Christians? The Front Porch is being designed specifically to appeal to downtowners, who may or may not be Christians, but by-and-large do not relate to the standard Bible Belt subculture. So I never said that Christians shouldn’t build or run their own facilities, I was just wondering if our purposes and our methods are lining up right.


I don’t think our buildings were built primarily for outreach. They are merely utilitarian. Sorry about the off-handed humor. The imp in me escapes from time to time.

Not to worry… impishness is an occasional trait of mine, as well.

I guess if they’re utilitarian, and primarily for Christians, then the question is whether we are using our money wisely. As I said before, I often wonder if we are more successful followers of Christ as a result of our buildings, or if there are less expensive ways to meet our own needs, thus freeing up more funds to reach the world.


Robert Schuller, speaking of the medieval cathedrals, says the most expensive church buildings are the most economical because they last the longest by far.

Although no building is cost-effective unless it is used well. And no church building is cost-effective if we could accomplish our real purpose just as well without it.

After all that was said, he and I had a conversation about it in person, which I did not tape record. It was concluded, as so many of my hard-fought discussions lately, that God calls different people to accomplish his will in different ways. This, to me, is the most intellectually dissatisfying conclusion. And yet, it is in many ways a spiritual relief... that it's not up to me to figure out what everyone else's methods should be. I am called to hear God's voice speaking to me, and obey it. Period.

But still... I can't help wondering, whenever I pass by all these church buildings, if God's people really know what they're doing. Is it possible that we could spend millions of dollars without a clear idea of who is supposed to benefit from the result? And all the while the blue people need houses they don't want, while the yellow people build houses they don't need.

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11 Comments:

At 8:44 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

??
It has no plus or minus factor in and of itself.
??

- Let's search the new testament for any evidence of "building funds".

- Let's discover in the new testament if a building was ever designed to evidence the "inclusivity of our faith"

- The bottom line is that if you search the roots of our churchianity "Edifice Complex" you will find that the modern church building is of pagan origins only. All the way back to Constantine.

Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. - Will Durant

SGTomlins

 
At 9:29 AM , Blogger beloved268 said...

I don't think the question is, "Building, or not?" but how much building. The Pastor gave the perfectly legitimate reason for buildings in general, and this should be no exception for communities of faith. But what every church should explore is the necessity of certain types of facilities. Personally, I believe recreational facilities for youth are of paramount importance. This includes places for them to engage in sports, concerts and other activities. I also believe auditoriums of some sort for corporate expressions of worship are vital. Office space is, to some degree, necessary, if that church pays its pastors (the New Testament is very clear on the necessity of paying pastors). Sunday school classrooms may not be as necessary.

Take a moment, then, to consider other institutions which use buildings, such as universities. And what's the purpose of university buildings? Education, of course. If churches were housing theological schools, they might be able to validate large numbers of classrooms. The question comes down to how much the facilities are being used. If they are being a service to the community, then they are good. If they are facilitating processes that would otherwise be lacking, then they are good. And, most importantly, this only if the church can afford them.

 
At 2:43 PM , Anonymous l.a.w said...

I disagree that the modern church building is of pagan origins. In fact much of the concept of church and the building is of the synagogue model which developed some 400 years before Yeshua.

Are you asking the right question? Are we concerning about the building which we call church or are we concerned about people which we also call the church? The people make up the community ("church") of believers whether we meet in a home, outside, in a store front or wherever.

Questions: Is a church building any more holy than any other building? Why do we call it a sanctuary? How does the church building fit into our beliefs about a church service or church organization or even our understanding of ministry?

Enjoyed your thoughts. I like to think on things to. Sometimes its good to think outside the box.

 
At 6:42 PM , Blogger SGT said...

Agreed, building or not is moot. However a building has nothing to do with Christianity.

Put me in a palace or a cardboard shack, if I love my brother, I will be identified with Christ.

We are the temple, we are the building, Christ is the cornerstone, we are fitly joined together and the Spirit resides in us as believers.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The new testament church has nothing to do with buildings, offices, rec centers, etc..., you won't find any scripture references on how to support or pay for them, however we can and will use them just like we would a pencil, paper clip, bus, or wood paneling and copper pipe.

We need shelter. Buildings are good. The Spirit of Christ will be wherever the believer is. Support of the "ekklesia", the people of God, will certainly involve brick and mortar.

Choose your venue wisely.

- - - S I D E N O T E - - -
I would like to touch on the comment:"(the New Testament is very clear on the necessity of paying pastors)"

What about apostles?
What about prophets?
What about evangelists?
What about teachers?

All are needed to perfect the saints. I would assume they all need to be paid..correct?

Funny thing is I do not find any evidence in new testament scripture that there were ANY paid ministers. See Paul's example of being supported by a vocation.

Acts 20:17, 32-35

Paul even does his work "free of charge"

1Co 9:18 What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

Filthy lucre and feeding the flock are mutually exclusive in 1 Peter 5, and this thought can be furthered by Titus 1:6, 1 Tim 3:6. You might even go so far as to liken a paid "pastor" as an hireling....

John 10:12-13 hmmmm?

If you word study the passage of 1 Tim 5:17-18 your bucket of paid pastors will have holes in it. It uses the Greek word "time" (honor) and not "misthos" and "opsonion" for pay or wages..

The word "time" is used for all to honor one another Rom 12:10, so we should all pay one another...?

The bottom line is that there are no paid, professional clergy in the new testament. Nor should there be!

I have been diggin' into this topic for some time, sorry anything that looks like a "rant".

Maybe another blog topic?

All the best!
SGTomlins

 
At 6:59 PM , Blogger SGT said...

Partially agree...on the synagogue.

Here is another "thought" about the modern "Christian" church (building).

Martin Luther only created a reformation of the Catholic church. He came no where close to building a new tesstament model of the ekklesia.

The Roman Catholic church during the 4th to 6th centuries melded paganism and Judaism. Each of which was to be left when a mind was renewed in Christ.

If anything we do in churchianity resembles the Judaism of the old testament (including our buildings), we need to seriously look at what side of the veil we want to live on...

SGTomlins

 
At 8:08 AM , Blogger The Coreman said...

Some really good comments.

I think anyone who might try to argue that local Christian fellowships should always have buildings or never have buildings would have a very tough time.

One thing we can discern from scripture is that we are to be students of our culture. We must find connecting points. If we met in cardboard boxes and mud huts, we may think ourselves quite spiritual, but none of that weirdness will really move anybody closer to God. We must be a peculiar people in our extravagance of love for God, each other, and those in the world. If we are doing that, the rest is mere details.

My main point about buildings is that, sometimes they are the evidence that our greatest love is for ourselves. Many of us have not even considered that a) just maybe we could fulfill our call to fellowship, discipleship, and worship in our own homes, or outdoors, or in public buildings, and b) if we do have a building, perhaps it should exist to serve the community, rather than ourselves. And in that effort, we must be very careful not to design and run everything to appeal to exclusively Christian tastes.

Whether these things are true for every local fellowship or not, my concern is that everyone just tosses up a building without a second thought to stewardship and selflessness. And many times we don't even stop to think about what the POINT of a local fellowship is. We just "do what we've always done."

And SGT, in regards to your opinion of paid leadership, I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. I'd like to have you explain it to me in person. It has occurred to me that Paul argues for the right of a full-time minister to receive full-time pay, although he himself chooses to decline it. In my mind, if a congregation feels led to call a particular person to devote themselves fully to that group (without being distracted by an outside career,) they are within biblical boundaries, and they would naturally need to pay a fair wage.

 
At 1:50 PM , Blogger beloved268 said...

I think the argument that Christians have unique architectural and interior design tastes is pretty weak. I think we are noticing more a difference of upper middle class culture and pop culture of Gen Xers and Yers. 99.9% of modern church buildings are virtually indistinguishable from secular office buildings or conference centers, except when there happens to be a cross and a church name on the building. Ancient church buildings had a cultural uniqueness to them, although I find this uniqueness to be quite beautiful and even a bit mystifying, as do most non-Christians. This is not a barrier to the Gospel.

What concerns me, rather, are the plethora of "Christian media" that stick out as sore thumbs on the airways or in places of worship.

All in all, it's important that we not let our faith expressions become utilitarian. The overly simplistic church models teeter on this.

 
At 4:44 PM , Blogger The Coreman said...

When I talk about the way Christians "design and run buildings to appeal only to Christians" I'm really emphasizing the services and programs more than the architecture or decor.

When we use our buildings in ways that would interest very few non-Christians, I think we are guilty of selfishness. And yet, I still disagree with you regarding that 99.9%. I think you could take all the signs and Christian symbols off of all our church buildings, and people would still recognize at least 75% of them as churches. And although you're correct that there's nothing abou the architecture that necessarily repels anyone, it is peoples' experience with Christians and Christian programs that lend these buildings a guilt-by-association. Sure, it's unfair. But we have to face the facts.

And about those old cathedrals... I agree that they're much better representatives of God's beauty and mystery than our current tin-and-steel chapels. But I wouldn't be one bit surprised if people over the centuries have been reluctant to enter a grand cathedral because they didn't feel they were holy enough.

 
At 10:05 PM , Blogger beloved268 said...

Interestingly enough, Coreman, you really aren't sounding at odds with the pragmatists at all... you're just disappointed by their failure to be pragmatic enough. Everything you're recommending is basically a more bare-bones, pragmatic approach. It's all about the Church providing goods and services that non-Christians need and want, i.e. the ultimate "seeker sensitive" church. Granted, you have more of a heart for the disenfranchised and marginalized seekers rather than the suburbanites and cool kids, but you're still presenting Christianity ultimately in terms of how appealing or appeasing it is to non-Christians. In other words, what you seem to be calling for is nothing new. It's a reformation of pragmatism. As someone mentioned on here (I believe), Luther's reformation wasn't very ecclesiastical, with exception to the deemphasis of priests and purging of godless rituals.

Now, I know this isn't the totality of your perspective on Church, but that's just how this post comes across.

 
At 9:14 AM , Blogger The Coreman said...

I don't think my final conclusion was actually very pragmatic at all: "God works in all different ways, and calls us to simply be obedient to Him."

But having laid that foundation, I don't mind being pegged as a reformed pragmatist. My philosophy is, you stay close to God, read His Word, and listen to His voice. Do first what is expected of you in scripture. Do second what you hear Him clearly speaking to your heart. Do third what is most likely to achieve that which you know is important to God. That last one is defined as "pragmatism" and there's nothing wrong with it, so long as it doesn't take first or second place.

And allow me for a moment to weigh in on the term "seeker sensitive". I know it has gone out of vogue, and even when it was in vogue, it was heavily attacked. To me, it's just one more philosophy that has its place. If you are taking a time that ought to be used for the benefit of the believers... for focused discipleship, worshp, etc, and watering it down to make it acceptible to those outside the body, you are doing damage. Churches guilty of this deserved the criticism they received. However, if a Christian, or a church, makes no attempts to be seeker-sensitive at any point, they have failed to love the lost, and are guilty of sequestering themselves idealogically from a fallen world.

 
At 9:35 AM , Blogger beloved268 said...

Oh, that's very good. Prioritizing is a long lost art in the Church today. But "seeker-sensitive" probably wasn't the most accurate term to describe what I was thinking. "Seeker-driven" would probably be more descriptive. And, in context, this conversation takes a whole different shape between now and the time when the Front Porch is up and running. As of now, The Core doesn't really have "something for seekers" and "something for mature disciples". Socrates Cafe and outreach on the square used to fill these roles, but now the Sunday gatherings and the website are the primary outlets for engagement with both the "committed" and the "crowd". As you mentioned, you can't really minister to both at the same time. You will either water things down so much that it's irrelevant and uninspiring to the committed, or you will be so far over the heads of the crowd that you become irrelevant. So right now, all this is hypothetical at worst and anticipatory at best.

Ideally, The Core will have abundant opportunities for people to engage at all different places in their journeys with Christ. But right now, all those roads are merged into one.

 

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